Due to the small volume of the body - risk of rapid hypothermia in children is very high. Do not risk it in the winter.

posted about 8 years ago

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Mikhail‭

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I don't know the route itself, but according to what I read there are two non-technical routes, one from the "Prielschutzhaus" and another from "Welse Huette". The first one includes one steep section secured with steel wires. So you need to be sure that you can overcome such difficulties, but even if you can overcome these with your kid and you are well prepared for winter camping, this is not the main/only issue:

Avalanches

I can't find an avalanche report for the exact location, but for the close-by region of Salzburg there is a high risk of avalanches above 2200m (level 3) due to new snow and wind. This will change till next week, but there will most likely still be significant avalanche risk. As the route has very steep sections on the upper part, this risk is serious. So either you are experienced enough to judge the situation for yourself or you absolutely cannot go. This tour is often done as a late winter/spring backcountry ski tour, as avalanche risk is more manageable in that time (less snow, frozen snow in the morning). I don't see reports of it being done in winter, so it is probably not safe most of the time.

Bottom line:

You cannot go because of avalanche danger (not considering this factor rules out that you have experience with it), not because of bringing a kid.

posted about 8 years ago

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imsodin‭

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I can recommend exactly 1 thing: stay near the car. Get no farther from the car than you are comfortable carrying her back. Keep gallons of fuel in the car for a stove. You may need it.

EDIT: Some people are pointing out this is in fact a well-populated area. If true, and I see no indication in the question it is, this is a lot safer than it appears at first glance. My primary fear would be getting stuck in a storm, and having a 6 year old basically eliminates walk-out in that scenario. But with lots of people around the chances of real help being available get much better.

posted about 8 years ago

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Joshua‭

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In short - No, do not take your 6 y.o. daughter on that mountain in winter in one week's time.

There'll be plenty of opportunities for parent-daughter bonding in the future in less extreme and more pleasant circumstances.

My reasons:

1. One of the cardinal rules in mountaineering is to usually travel in fours, minimum of three if all in the party have lots of experience. If one hiker has a mishap, one person can stay with them while the other two go for help. The fact that you are contemplating going essentially by yourself and taking someone who is wholly dependent on you, as has been pointed out above by @Erik and others, indicates to me you don't have the necessary knowledge or experience to do this trip safely by yourself with your daughter.

2. You asked earlier for details about construction of emergency shelters. Again, this indicates to me you don't have the necessary knowledge or experience to do this trip safely by yourself with your daughter.

3. The answers above regarding avalanches give me further indication that you have not got the experience for this trip at this time.

If nothing else, if you really must go, find 3 people or friends with more mountain experience than you, and who have some rapport with your daughter, and hire a guide as well. Another alternative might be to do a mountaineering group course with her, where you both can learn how to build emergency shelters and about avalanche drill, amongst other things. That should be some fun and a bit of a challenge for her.

posted about 8 years ago

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My Other Head‭

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The normal track to Großer Priel involves some smaller climbing sections, so even in summer it isn't that easy. Total ascent is around 2000m and about 24 kms, so definitely a serious climb. Do you have snow shoes or skis and are you both well versed in using them? Are you intending to use crampons for both of you for either frozen snow sections or icy climb sections? Will you be having an avalanche probe on you and your daughter? Do you and your daughter have experience in winter mountaineering?

I'm an experienced climber and did some more serious mountaineering years ago, I would hesitate doing this in winter and definitely would not do this in winter with a six year old. It's okay if you want to do it and pay for the rescue afterwards, but please don't risk the life of your daughter.

Here are some pictures of the winter ascent from: Climb and Hike.

posted about 8 years ago

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sveme‭

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Ouch. If you have to ask, you're not ready to take her. You also intimated that your hiking party is a party of 2. I wouldn't even be a part of a party of two adults in the summer, let alone a party of two with a young child in the winter.

What will either of you two do if the other gets injured?

Will you be avoiding avalanche country?

What will you do if she decides half-way through that this isn't a very good idea?

Will your cell phone work in the mountains? In all parts of it?

Do you both know what to do if you get lost?

What about animals in the middle of the night: food is scarce, the snow dampens sound, and animals are keen to know what's good food and what's not worth the effort.

Also, a sleeping bag is only part of your worries. Clothes are another. So is footwear. You asking about risking a young child's health by taking her - alone - on a long and dangerous setting suggests you yourself don't have a lot of experience.

What if she has an accident on night #1: do you have a backup plan to dry out her sleeping bag for night #2?

I don't really know your medical or outdoors experience, I can only infer it's not much. If you decide to embark on this trip, I would strongly suggest you enroll yourself in a Wilderness First Aid course. I don't know where you're from, so, can only give general advice. But here in the US, the American Red Cross offers courses in Wilderness First Aid, which necessarily includes topics such as anaphalaxis, identifying and handling hypothermia, frostbite, and common injuries. But finding a course can take months to secure - indeed, I'm renewing my own and here in November I have to wait until April next year to enroll.

As to hypothermia, this relates to the medical advice you asked about:

Hypothermia has the dubious distinction of being a medical condition in which the victim doesn't realize s/he's suffering from it until it is too late, at which point disorientation and inability to treat it set in, to say nothing of what your 6 year old will do. You are literally placing your (and therefore, HER) life in her hands: Can she be trusted to recognize it in YOU? Can you recognize it in HER? Because YOU will not be able to recognize it in YOU and SHE cannot recognize it in HER.

6 year olds also like to eat snow - who doesn't? - but eating snow can be dangerous on a trek like this, and can trigger dehydration and diarrhea. These are the last things you need to be bringing along on a trip with a 6 year old.

I assume you've covered the usual hiking hazards, like logistics of water treatment and food, map and compass use, handling getting lost, calling for help, leaving notice with friends/family and a ranger station before embarking, and checking out on your return, that you know how to keep your food safe at night from animals.

Honestly, I don't know what you've thought out. But I wouldn't do it. If you were 30 minutes from civilization at any point in the trip, that'd be one thing. But you're up in the mountains, and help is difficult to secure in the winter. I hope your cell phone will work.

posted about 8 years ago

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System‭

2019 reputation 180 537 246 0

You know that there is a lot of snow already in those heights in Austria? Even in 1500m people not used to it will get problems. Please have a look at webcams and detailed descriptions of the route you are trying to hike. And check out the conditions!

I was never on that mountain but it seems there are exposed ridges and even wire-assured parts on the route up. This means you have to watch your step even when it's dry and snow-free. So even without a kid this might be dangerous in current conditions. This depends highly on your skills and experience.

In general I wouldn't recommend your plan with a 6 y.o. kid under winter conditions. During summer, some (trained) kids can have a great time on such a tour though.

Besides the lines above regarding your specific plans, I will give some hints regarding tours with a kid during winter:

• Going with a kid I would recommend at least a rope to back her up
• Children most likely won't know if they have power for X more hours or X more kilometers. You are therefore more likely to bring your daughter and yourself in a biga** emergency-situation
• If you get in trouble you might have to stay in the cold for a long time until help comes (if it is possible for them to come). The muscle to body weight ratio of a kid will be lower, especially of girls. Muscle movement warms your body up.
• It's not unlikely that a kid don't know the risks and therefore might panic if it is getting serious. Panic is not good for both of you...
• You are in need to supervise your kid. It will always come down to you and the way you care for your kid. Don't overstate the burden on your kid unless it is grown enough to be able to make the decision by herself.

posted about 8 years ago

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Wills‭

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If you find that:

• The avalanche risk is close to null (listen to reports, ask professionals, don't take any chances)
• You have the necessary equipment and you can carry it (you'll have to carry most of it for the both of you. Big sleeping bags, big sleeping pads, too, a good tent, food and kitchen, extra clothing, puffys, ... Also probably snowshoes and/or spikes...)
• Your daughter has the necessary experience to do the trip and enjoy it (did you do long mountain day trips before, trips of several days in milder conditions, ...)

Then don't forgot to:

• Make sure the route is very easy for you. You may have to carry her, you'll definitely have to carry more stuff than you would for yourself, and you need to be prepared for anything during the trip, not arrive at camp tired. Consider possibly something that you could do alone in one big day.
• Walk first to open the trail (obviously)
• Make sure she is not tired (don't just ask, but look for signs, yawning, slowing pace, irritability), ans stop while she still has some reserve.
• Look for signs of hypothermia and frostbites. Make sure she feels her feet at all times
• Have several backup plans. Don't get stuck on the other side of the mountain with 10 hours of exhausting walk for the last day. Have alternative itineraries that you know in advance that get you out of the mountain rapidly.
• After the first night, make sure she is ok (well rested, not cold) to continue and spend a second night in the same conditions and then another day. Otherwise, go back early, and try again another time.

posted about 8 years ago

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njzk2‭

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Other people have addressed several concerns that I would have bringing a young child into the mountains during the winter. One concern that I haven't seen addressed is; what if something happens to you because the average 6 year old is going to be entirely dependent on you. If you become compromised for any reason the child more than likely isn't going to be able help you or fend for themselves effectively. While it is certainly true that accidents can happen anytime of the year, winter is unquestionably more risky.

If you're going to take a 6 year old into the mountains in the winter apart from all the other precautions that people mentioned I'd highly recommend that you don't take the child without them being able to do the following things efficiently in storm/adverse conditions:

• Access and activate an emergency locator beacon that they have on their person at all times.
• Be able to carry on their person at all times, an emergency shelter that they can setup/use in storm/adverse conditions and live in alone for at least a couple days
• Be able to recognize what is the best location they can reach to wait and setup their emergency shelter for a rescue (ie don't setup camp on a cornice)
• Be able to leave you broken/bleeding/unconscious/dieing/etc to setup their emergency shelter in a safe location to ensure their survival because they recognize they don't have the strength/skills to help you
• Be mentally tough enough to not leave the emergency shelter during a storm even if that storm lasts for over 24 hours, and they're alone, and they're "sure" they hear you moaning for help.

If you can be confident that your 6 year old child can do all of those things then I'd say you have a very unique child. If they can't then you need to decide for yourself if your child's almost certain death in the snow, in the event of an accident, due to fate or your miscalculation, is worth the risk.

As an aside another risk with children is putting them in a situation that is uncomfortable and makes them not want to do similar activities in the future. For example if the first trip a young kid takes skiing they get cold, wet, and fall constantly they aren't going to be excited to go again. If the first several times they go skiing they are warm, comfortable, and get to drink extra hot chocolate they'll be more forgiving with the intermittent wet, cold, and generally crummy day. If you do decide to take your daughter out snow camping I'd recommend you do absolutely everything in your power to make it go off without a hitch or you're going to have a hard time getting a second chance.

posted about 8 years ago

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Erik‭

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6 is young but you said she is strong and has mountain experience.

From what I read there are non-technical (walking) routes.

If snow is deep it is very hard for short legs. Make sure she has water proof hiking boots.

Kids are slightly more susceptible to hypothermia but the lows are in the 20's F (-7 – -1°C). If you have proper clothing you are not going to get hypothermia (or even cold).

If you don't have a 4 season tent I would advise against.

You can always decide not to summit.

imsodium brings up a great point on avalanche danger. But that does not necessarily mean don't go. In the US we have ranger stations that we check in and check out. They will advise on avalanche danger and alternate hikes. In the area I suspect there are alternate lower altitude hikes below avalanche danger.

posted about 8 years ago

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paparazzo‭

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