Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

How to belay on top of a pitch

+0
−0

When doing a multi-pitch and you reach a belay station (the top of a pitch) you can choose between belaying the lead climber from the body (like you do e.g. indoors where you aren't doing multi-pitches) or from the belay station (anchor) itself.

Can someone experienced please compare those types of belaying? What are pros and cons? What should be preferred in which situation?

I know for example that you have to care if you are using a Tube (e.g. BD ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso) and you are going to belay from the body because the device will fail if the pull of the rope isn't coming from above.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/q/6930. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

3 answers

You are accessing this answer with a direct link, so it's being shown above all other answers regardless of its score. You can return to the normal view.

+1
−0

There are many different types of belays from above, e.g., you could be belaying for someone on third-class snow, with your dug-in crampons as part of your anchor. In that particular situation, you want to belay off of your body.

Belaying off of your body has the disadvantage that if the climber takes a fall, you may be whipped around. A possible advantage is that it's a pretty natural and physically comfortable way to belay, and one that many people are familiar with from the gym.

Belaying with the belay device hung off of the anchor has a couple of advantages. If the follower falls, you won't be moved around. Also, if you're using an ATC Guide, this setup allows you to use its autoblocking mode. This protects your climber if, e.g., you get hit in the head by rockfall. One possible big disadvantage is that if you don't understand how to set up your belay device properly for belaying in this mode, you can be in a situation where you effectively are not giving a belay.

Every belay station is different, and you may want to take into account the physical setup and your physical comfort.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/6933. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

+1
−0

Belaying Multi-pitch

It's often recommended to belay off the harness (an "indirect" belay) when belaying the leader, and off the anchor (a "direct" belay) when belaying the follower. Use of an indirect belay for the leader reduces the force on the anchors, but does require consideration of how the belayer may be pulled in a fall. Use of a direct belay for the follower similarly minimizes the force on the anchor by avoiding the pulley effect.

When the anchor pieces are extremely solid (e.g. bolts), a direct belay may be desirable in both cases. Still, do bear in mind that neither setup is mandatory; if a direct belay would place you in an awkward or less secure position then an indirect belay would offer, you should probably use the indirect belay and vice versa.

Belaying the leader

Should the leader fall before placing any protection, and continue falling past the belayer, the direction of pull then comes from below, and so the belayer must reverse their braking direction. As the belayer may not recognize the implications of this and thus not respond quickly enough, it's common to want to find some way to redirect the rope. However, an easier way to address this is for the belayer to bring their brake hand around behind their hip, rather than making a habit of braking purely downwards. Having your hand further from the device when it's locked-off may also reduce rope burns in a high fall factor situation as more rope can slip through the device before it has to also slip through your hand.

If a redirect is still wanted, the leader can do this by clipping the rope into the shelf, master point, or the topmost piece of the anchor, which the belayer may unclip once additional protection has been placed. Alternatively the belayer could lower themselves a few meters below the anchor. I've also seen it suggested that the previous leader could climb slightly above the belay station in order to place an initial piece, and descend to build the belay anchor. (This makes an exception to the "never back-clip" rule, as back-clipping this piece lets the rope run the correct direction when the other climber takes the lead.)

Redirecting the belay by clipping the anchor may slightly reduce the fall factor due to the additional rope out. However, it also means the belayer will be pulled violently into that piece when such a fall happens. The pulley effect will also multiply the force on the anchor (or the particular piece that was clipped) in contrast to a direct belay. Thus, unless the clipped piece is solid (e.g. a bolt) and the belayer can also be anchored to prevent them smashing into it, it may be preferable for the leader to simply place good protection soon after leaving the ground rather than clipping the leader's rope into the anchor.[1] (Of course, if you have an extremely solid anchor, you might also consider a direct belay.)

A strong argument for an indirect belay (off the harness) is that by incorporating the belayer into the system, some of the load on the anchor is shifted to the belayer's stance. This may be helpful if the quality of the anchor or gear is in question. If you do use an indirect belay, be mindful of the direction a fall will pull the belayer. It's also advisable to clip the belay device into both the rope tie-in loop and the belay loop when doing this, in order to prevent discomfort from the harness being twisted in two different directions.[2] (Clipping the belay loop vs. clipping the tie-in loop is also a way you can further adjust the amount of force going to the anchor.)

On the other hand, a direct belay (off the anchor) will be much easier to escape if something goes wrong, and essentially eliminates the weight of the belayer as a factor in catching falls. This may be beneficial if the leader significantly outweighs their belayer, but it also means that it's harder to give a "soft catch". It also places significantly higher forces on the anchor and gear.[3] (Along those same lines, use of a tube-style belay device such as an ATC or Reverso will allow additional rope slippage that further reduces the impact on the anchor.)

References:

  1. Will Gadd "Anchor Clipping #2 (Now 3) http://willgadd.com/anchor-clipping-2/

  2. Belaying – From the 'Rope Loop' or from the harness 'Belay Loop'? http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1129

  3. Max Berger "Steinzeitmethode Fixpunktsicherung?" http://www.bergundsteigen.at/file.php/archiv/2012/3/36-41%20%28steinzeitmethode%20fixpunktsicherung%29.pdf

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/6938. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

+0
−0

(Update: I have now realized you were talking about belaying the leader, and not the second climber. I am updating my answer to take this into account.)

What does "belay from the body" mean?

According to your remark on the direction of the pool, I guess it means the rope doesn't pass through the anchor at all. This type of belaying seems not safe, regardless of which belay device you are using. If the climber you are belaying falls, he will pull you down (or to the side, if it was a traverse), and you will find yourself hanging on your self-belay in a very uncomfortable position, possibly letting go of the belay rope! I also heard that harnesses are designed to be weaker when pulled downward, but I don't know whether this is true.

It's very easy to fix this arrangement: just pass your rope through the anchor (most likely by adding a dedicated carabiner to the anchor, and passing the rope through it).

I could think about just a few reasons not to pass the rope through the anchor:

  • If you have a very unreliable anchor, or no anchor at all
  • If the rope is too short

The above is especially true for belaying the second climber; it is also usually true for belaying the leader; however, when the station is very comfortable and you (the belayer) have nowhere to fall, there is little use in passing your rope through the anchor. In this case, until the leader places the first piece of protection, he most likely hits the ground (or ledge you are standing on), and the rope doesn't help. Also, you might want to help him land safely in this case (aka "gymnastic belay"), and being attached to the anchor hinders your movement. So, in this case you should not pass the rope through the anchor.


(The following part describes belaying the second climber. I have never tried to belay a leader with belay device anywhere except my harness, and I suspect it's impossible.)

If "belay from the body" only signifies where you attach the belay device (your harness vs the fixed anchor) - the choice is mostly a matter of convenience. It's usually more convenient to use the anchor (assuming you use a device that supports it); in some situations the "indoor" mode is better:

  • If you are going to move around while belaying
  • If the anchor is high above you, and you don't have spare webbing for extensions
  • Sometimes you want to apply a constant sideways force on the anchor to guide the rope away from sharp rock outcroppings
  • Maybe you want to use your weight to help the following climber cheat through hard sections? (just guessing here; never had to do this)
History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/6932. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

Sign up to answer this question »