Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

Roping together on an icy path?

+0
−0

I'm planning a mountain hiking trip and one of the issues is that the trails that we're following will almost certainly be covered in ice. There are two of us and we'll both be wearing shoe traction equipment like this: YaxTrax Extreme Outdoor Traction. The trails follow ridge lines and moderate slopes on relatively low altitude mountains (5,945' or 1,812 m). However there is the possibility that a slip on the ice will lead to sliding right off the edge of a cliff or steep drop.

My question then is, should we rope ourselves together so if one of us started sliding the other could "self arrest" by grabbing on to a tree, or even throwing ourselves in the deep snow? We will not have ice axes or climbing harnesses. I was picturing a bowline tied around each waist. Does this seem smart or does it seem like a way to guarantee both of us dieing if one were to fall?

Thanks!

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/q/5263. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

3 answers

You are accessing this answer with a direct link, so it's being shown above all other answers regardless of its score. You can return to the normal view.

+0
−0

This is a bad plan for several reasons.

YakTrax are not well suited for this situation. YakTrax are more specialized for people who want to go running on city streets in places with cold winters. For mountaineering, they're basically useless. They don't give enough extra traction. Microspikes or crampons would be more appropriate.

Roping up is a specialized technique that is used, for example, when crossing a glacier that may have crevasses. It's not the best technique for the situation you're describing. For the situation you're describing, you should be carrying ice axes and know how to self-arrest. With your rope plan, if one of you falls, the other is unlikely to be able to self-arrest quickly and firmly enough. There is a technique called a running belay, but it's not a common, basic technique that you should be worrying about as a beginner.

When traveling in a rope team, normally people use climbing harnesses. It's true that mountaineers used to tie in to a rope without using a harness a hundred years ago. It's also true that there are ways of tying in to a rope in an emergency without a harness; you can find the technique (a diaper sling) described in Freedom of the Hills. But basically there is no sane reason these days to intentionally not use harnesses if you're tying in to a rope team.

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/5264. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

+0
−0

Roping up would be a bad idea. A good rule of thumb is that you should only rope up if you can place protection between climbers (i.e. attach the rope to something). Glaciers are a different story, but that's not where you're going. Many accidents have occurred when one rope mate falls and takes all the others with them.

As far as using YaxTrax , that is going to be trail and condition dependent. For ridge lines and moderate slopes on good (but somewhat icy trails), I think they would be fine. They are also going to be lighter and more flexible than proper crampons. If, on the other hand, you were planning on climbing steeper ice or deep snow, I would recommend bringing proper crampons.

Generally a good idea is to never climb up something you wouldn't feel comfortable climbing down, so you are not over-committed.

Trekking poles might be a good thing to bring, and would give you better balance. Also, be sure to practice walking around outside with your chosen footwear + crampon / yaktrak. You want to make sure you don't have any issues of fit, comfort, or the thing falling off.

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/5265. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

+0
−0

As other posters said, roping together is not a good idea, at least if you are not an experienced mountaineer.

Now on how you can do your trip in safety.

  • When walking on ice and frozen dirt, don't rely on self-arrest. You can self arrest on the steep (>5-10 degrees) ice only by hitting it hard with your ice-axe and only during the first second while you haven't gained much speed. After that if you manage to hit the ice with your axe, if will be ripped out of your hands. And self arresting in this first second needs so much practice and luck.
  • Rely on not falling down. Get crampons. You don't need anything really "vertical" like Grivel G14 or Rambo, go for a lighweight G10 or even an aluminium alloy model. (Of course I don't advertise Grivel, you can shop any reliable brand).
  • You absolutely should practice walking on crampons beforehand on a horizontal surface. The common problem with them is "pants injury", when the teeth of a crampon catch your trousers and you fall down as if stepping on your shoelaces.
  • Now you can add trekking poles for balance and as a last resort.
  • When at some point on your route stumbling means falling down and you don't feel confident even with crampons, go back or find another route. One can learn how to walk with 3 fulcrums facing the slope, or other techniques, but when you need this you actually need serious ropes.
History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/5286. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

Sign up to answer this question »