Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

Walking through a Thigh-high snow

+0
−0

I have far less experience in trekking where there is snow. I believe walking through snow and through ice are two different techniques.

Is there some sort of safe technique to walk on such snow with nearly 30o slope and winds?

I wonder if I would be able to take the same route that I open during an ascend, while descending. Yes, I can use some sort of markers, so that I can navigate the way, but with such snow, you can't really bet on the fact that the marker will hold up there till I get back.

I have heard past experiences from people that, fixing rope lines there isn't of much help either, as they found their ropes buried under snow. And, that sounds logical to me, because there is a major factor, wind, which blows snow everywhere.

I am referring to high altitude slopes, probably between good 20000 - 22000 ft. An uncaught slip-and-drop would be fatal without a doubt.

How should I go about it then?

Obvious Assumptions: I have necessary equipment, walking sticks, Ice ax, etc.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/q/5030. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

2 answers

+0
−0

Three thoughts:

  1. If the snow is thigh-high, then you should be either using touring skis or snowshoes to "float" over the snow. You'll expend way less energy. Seriously, I can cover probably 10x-50x the distance (or more) with alpine touring gear or snowshoes in the same amount of time as someone without, and that's regardless of the angle of slope.

  2. Retracing your trail only matters if there is only "one safe way" through a route. Event then, it's probably not worth it. The beauty of snow is that you can create an optimal trail each time, so perhaps you're doing large switchbacks as you ascend, and then something much more aggressive when descending. If there is high wind then the trail is going to be lost and you'll spend more time looking for it than simply blazing a new trail. If you want a secret for finding trails in the snow: bring a dog. I've travelled in 12ft deep snow where the dog was able to find the trail underneath with no hassle. I rarely use the same trail descending in snow that I use when ascending.

  3. 30 degree slopes at 20,000+ altitude reeks of avalanche danger, crevasse danger, and exposure danger. I assume you're travelling in a group, that you've all taken AST (avalanche safety training), are all wearing beacons, shovels and probes, have a certified guide with you who knows how to read terrain for avalanche danger, is geared to extract you (e.g. has a satellite phone, a 1st aid sled in his pack) and that you are all tied in together?

I can only speak having done alpine mountaineering in the 10,000ft range, but I would expect it to be doubly important in your case.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/5034. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

+0
−0

An unhurdled slip-and-drop would be fatal without a doubt.

If this is the case, then maybe you need a belay. However, if the snow is sufficiently deep and soft that you're sinking up to your knees, why is it the case that slipping and being unable to self-arrest is so dangerous? In these conditions, typically you can't even intentionally get going fast enough to glissade or practice self-arrest.

Given the conditions you're describing, the first thing I would worry about is avalanche danger. If the snow is that deep and soft, it sounds like you've just had a storm dumping a ton of fresh powder. Typically there is significant avalanche danger if there's (a) a lot of fresh snow, and (b) a slope of about 30-35 degrees or more. Since you're describing a slope of "nearly 30 degrees," I think my basic answer is that you should not be out in those conditions due to avalanche danger.

I would not suggest going out and then making the decision about whether conditions are OK to go up. There has been a lot of work by social scientists studying why people die in avalanches. Avalanche safety courses and transponders are not really highly correlated with survival. Once people get there, there are strong social forces pushing them forward. See Ian McCammon, "Evidence of heuristic traps in recreational avalanche accidents," http://www.snowpit.com/articles/traps%20reprint.pdf

Obvious Assumptions: I have walking sticks, equipment, Ice axe.

If the slopes are a little less steep than you're describing, or there's not as much fresh snow, then the avalanche danger might be acceptable, and then these are conditions where you want snowshoes. Personally, I don't bring poles when I'm going to be on snowshoes; I just bring an ice ax, which I only use if I'm on a steep slope. For mountaineering, you want snowshoes that have crampons.

As far as routefinding, you have various options, the most straightforward of which is not to march up to 22,000' in the middle of a storm. If you find yourself in whiteout conditions, you could try to use GPS, but since GPS isn't 100% reliable, I wouldn't intentionally seek out conditions where you were likely to need it in order to get down from such high altitude.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/5032. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

Sign up to answer this question »